WN: Yes, Clarence, what is the purpose of your research? What do you intend to find out? How can we help you? Introduce your project first. What is the purpose of your project? CL: In our research work, we aim to address the retirement needs of the elderly. Financial planning, healthcare and social activities are the key concerns of this research interview. In addition, we are exploring the possibility of building a retirement resort / village with the feasibility of using CPF. Elderly without dependent support are most vulnerable to retirement pitfalls. By researching such issues, the prospects of active and successful ageing are possible. MP: And that’s you’re key concerns? C: Yah, mainly that MP: Now, who suggested this? Was it you’re teacher, or amongst yourselves ZY: Umm, it’s part of our research education project that we are required to do MP: no, no I understand but how did this subject come about ZY: Our teacher gave it to us MP: So the topic was given by your teacher, is it? CL: We were supposed to research on the needs of the elderly and then, we thought that, umm we discussed and we thought that this is quite a good idea to WN: So, so who came up with the idea, for the research project? Who came up with the idea? Your idea, or your friend’s idea or your teacher’s idea? CL: Our teacher asked us to… our topic was to find ways to suit the retirement needs of the elderly ZY: All the groups are required to do something WN: all do one thing, divided into different groups lah MP: no I don’t think so. So umm how many groups are there JY: No, what the teacher gave us was to have us find and research a common need for the elderly and we each have to find a need for the elderly and meet their need. So, what we thought of was building a retirement village for the elderly to meet their needs. So we decided what we needed to do to cater to the needs but the, the main idea is to research the common need or needs for the elderly WN: Different group got different topic, lah? CL: their all on the elderly but… ZY: slightly different WN:ohh MP: so different topics for each group, is that correct HZ: Yah MP: mmm, that’s good CL: it’s like, we could decide on what we want to do but is all linked back to the elderly MP: basically, ok, the aging population is a very big subject and there are lots and lots of challenges and things that need to be done. I think mr wan noor and myself we’ve discussed and we say, right, we’re going to ask you, before coming here did you do any research on population aging in Singapore JJ: Yes CL: umm, we found out that the percentage of, ZY: the population of the elderly is, the percentage is rising. So its becoming a bigger problem and we need to cater to their needs because they are getting more now MP: the numbers are increasing, lah, correct CL: yah, its like, its, they think that it will reach 19% by, in Singapore, by 2030 MP: Alright, now, we start with the basic first, ok? What is your definition of the elderly? JJ: People who are 62 years old and above MP: 62…. Well, ok, I think I know where you get the figure 62 from, it’s the official retirement age, correct. Now, that is not what is generally who fits into the elderly category. Now, Clarence says that by 2030 the percentage will reach 19%. OK? Of the population in Singapore, correct, will be elderly, lah, correct? Based on what Clarence said, in fact the age, in which a person is considered an elderly is 65 years. Please, bear that in mind. 65 years and above, ok? Now, those people below, they are not considered elderly. I have asked you for a definition of elderly. In Singapore, there is no definition. It’s a loose thing. Generally for statistical purposes, they use 65 years and above. See, there are many terms to use, elderly, senior citizens, old folks, older people, you know that, right? And UN uses the term older people. We in Singapore, officially we call elderly, senior citizens, correct? Generally, everybody is stuck with the term elderly, lah, right? Umm, doesn’t matter. So I think you must get this right. In your report, you’ve got to make it very clear so that whoever, youre teacher or anybody who reads know you are talking about people who are 65 years and above, ok? You want to call them elderly, senior citizens, the government calls them snior citizens, you notice that, correct? Nd if you want to call them senior citizens, stick to the same terminology throughout. You do want to put one sentence senior citizens another sentence you put elderly and then the third sentence older people, then you confuse the reader, right? So my, our suggestion is, stick to senior citizens but we give it to you, its your project. Now, umm these are the basics, which you’ve just gone through, this is the intro. You’ve asked ten questions, you’ve got ten questions. Alright, Mr Wan Noor, over to you. WN: Please carry on with your questions CL: Do you think Singapore has adequate financial planning for retirement MP: Well, this question, Clarence, I don’t know how to answer, I tell you why? It is because what exactly do you mean by adequate financial planning, do you want to clarify that. CL: Umm like…. MP: No, are you saying financial planning from whose point of view. The individuals point of view, the country’s point of view, which point of view. “Does Singapore have adequate financial planning”, are you talking about whether it is retirement schemes or pension schemes, like what some western countries have, is that what you have in mind? CL: umm yah, I mean like retirement schemes… MP: You mean pension schemes, lah, in other words, when I retire, I get a sum of money, every month, from the government. Now is that what you have in mind when you ask that question? CL: Like maybe the different funds like maybe CPF and other… MP: okay… in other words, this question what you have in mind is, does Singapore have social security scheme. A pension is a type of social security, a country’s social security scheme, do you understand, alright, so when you have financial planning, change that question from the adequate financial planning, change to adequate social security, you’ve got to make a change there, in other words, after he has retired, does a person have a say for example a pension scheme, the collective term for this is a social security scheme, OK?
Part 2.5
MP:Different schemes coming together and, and and its got to be done in such a way that it covers various aspects because when you say just healthcare alone, to me, it conjures up a person who is sick, whether he requires operation or not, if he is sick then what sort of illnesses or diseases does this person have, what does it take to provide the medical treatment to cure. Does this person require surgery? After surgery what type of rehabilitation does he require? It is a very complicated process. Alright now, another contributory factor to high healthcare costs is the expensive equiptment the hospitals have got. Modern but expensive. Now, if the hospitals were to recover the cost, what about the staff, where do they get their salary from?
HZ: The patients
MP: Right, so the government recently put in place a budget, right, 2012 budget, yes? Then Ministry of Health has got a budget, quite a few billion dollars, and that is used to provide the infrastructure the operating costs and the doctor’s salaries, the nurses’ salaries, the whole works. Bearing in mind Singapore is not a welfare state, so therefore there is a certain amount of co-payment by the individuals, ok? Now these are the basics, the fundamentals that you must address, understand? Then we can begin to talk about healthcare cost like you’ve mentioned, you’ve got your medisave, medifund, you know, right? Then begin to talk then we can find if your answer is yes or no. The current healthcare costs are, okay, an average class person, middle-class downwards, cannot afford this and of course the lower income. Have you been to a doctor, when you were sick lah. How much did your parents have to pay for the consultation, to your GP, general practioner?
CL: Consultation only?
MP: You went to the clinic.
CL: Not counting medicine?
MP: Including, yes, everything
CL: I think umm $50
MP: How much, one-five, ah? 50? That’s-that’s high, right, so it was… was it for flu or what?
CL: Uhh, cant remember
MP: That was how long ago?
CL: Quite long ago
MP: Good thing the 5 of you are healthy and don’t have to go to the doctor often
JY: but the elderly need to go more often.
MP: Correct. Now but $50 is expensive, right, Clarence? Which doctor did you go to, the specialist or what?
WN: The most around $30 or so
ZY: Last time I go to the clinic then they give me a lot of medicine then the cost was very high
MP: Was it a private clinic, a private clinic or what?
ZY: Ah, it’s the family clinic
MP: The family clinic. So how much did your parents pay for the consultation at the GP? You went to the clinic right?
ZY: $50
MP: Where do you live?
ZY: They gave me a lot of medicine:
MP: But where do you live?
ZY: Potong Pasir, BoonKeng
MP: Yeah, I know where Boon Keng is. But $50 is expensive. I am surprised to hear. I go, when I had flu, slightly more than a month a go. I went to a clinic here. $16 including medicine. Average is $20, $30 maximum. $50, sure or not?
CL: $20 more consultation, then add medicine.
MP: Have you gone to doctor or not?
JY: My father’s a doctor.
MP: But does he treat you or he sends you to his friend?
JY: He treats me. He’s a GP as well. Unless I need a specialist.
MP: But then he can afford to pay.
CL: So what you’re saying is that the elderly have more problems with their health and thus have to pay more. Just like we ourselves would have to pay about $50 perhaps even the elderly might have to pay more.
MP: No. No. No.
CL: But perhaps we could supply some sort of medical health care help like your $16 consultations
MP: I must ask the GP who treated me. He is 70 years old, still in good health. He is a very very cheap generous GP. And there are quite a lot of GPs who actually charge lower rates for older people. They do. Do you know the late president of SAGE. Who passed away, he was a GP he had a clinic at Serangoon estate and without exception, he would give free consultation to those who could not afford to pay. Elderly. Those who could afford to pay he would give a lower rate for the elderly. Yes. And that is what I know some of our doctors do here. And I sincerely hope we have more of such doctors in Singapore. Hopefully all our GPs practise that.
JY: Perhaps the retirement villages could give free treatment. But then money would be a problem but I’m sure..
MP: Retirement Village…can we come to retirement village? OK?
JY: Yeah.
MP: Why do we need the retirement village? Who’s going to build the retirement village? The government?
ZY: Actually there are plans to build one in Johor Bahru.
JY: Actually for this kind of buildings the government would usually pay.
MP: But why would we build a retirement village? For what?
JY: For the benefit of the elderly?
MP: I am very happy staying at home. Why should I go to the retirement village?
CL: More and more people are going to the old folks’ home.
MP: is it? Because they’re sick? Because they have been discarded by their children. Now if their children take care of them and they are healthy, even with aches and pains, why should they go to retirement..why should they go to old folks’ home?
CL: So these would be those without the support…
MP: Right, right.Where are they staying now? The people in your research? Where are they staying now? Old folks’ home? Or in one or two room flat? Your research must tell you this.
CL: They showed that like.. uh…the people living with their children. So they are probably living in old folks’ home because the people going old folks’ home are increasing.
JY: Perhaps not enough money.
MP: Is it? It’s not cheap you know, staying in an old folks’ home, I assure you.
WN: To stay in an old folks’ home, it’s about $1800 around there. It’s not cheap, you know.
MP: And those who can’t afford, and no family, then the government subsidises. And that’s old folk;s home. It’s not cheap.
JY: It could be much less. Since it’s a retirement village. It’s not to make money. There could be a criteria. A certain criteria where you’re eligible to move inside .
MP: Can you please tell me who is going to pay to build a retirement village.
JY: Well it is as you say, a welfare society.
MP: No it is not a welfare state. So the state is not building that. You help SAGE to raise funds. How are you going to raise funds? Do you know, you raise for the building let’s say $10 m to build the building. What about running expenses?
CL: Well, seeing if it is feasible. Well people who want to stay at retirement villages could pay a certain amount every month. Like maybe after they die, or something then their children get maybe $100K from the insurance company. Where do the insurance company get the money? Because they invest.
MP: You invest the money? OK. That’s an idea lah hah. I want to go back to the basic. The concept of retirement village comes from the west. Because of their different culture, lifestyle of western people, right, they always encourage children to strike out on their own. Unlike the Asians where family relationship is very important, and still strong. And the parents as they grow older are quite used to staying on their own. Their children go to university, the country is big. Can you imagine whether it is Australia or US or Europe. When their children go to university they may be staying quite far from their parents. This is their life. This is their culture. So when they retire, that’s when businessmen come up with this idea of a retirement village, where they build houses or complexes. And they sell to these retirees. OK, they retire from their jobs and they buy these houses from the companies, or sometimes they lease. All retirement villages whether they are in US, Australia or anywhere else, they are built by private sector companies.
JY: We could have our own concept of retirement village.
MP: Well, we could. Good point, I can tell you, our HDB estates all the HDB estates whether it’s Toa Payoh, Ang Mo Kio, Bishan, Bt Batok anywhere when you look at it, each estate is a retirement village in itself. Think about it. They have more than 80% of Singaporeans live in HDB flats. Either 1 rm, 3 rm, 5 rm, and if you take a census of Toa Payoh. Queenstown? Redhill?
JY: Toa Payoh is mainly elderly.
MP: Perhaps not Sengkang because it is a new estate. You please think about it. Each and everyone of our HDB estate as a retirement village, then we are able to say we want to implement the concept of aging in place. And not all the elderly stay together in the retirement village. What’s the difference between HDB estate where you have markets , clinics, right? Hawker centres, yes? And you build a retirement village, where you have to put all these amenities, what’s the difference. Please Tell me?
JY: I think Clarence can explain our concept.
CL: I think the only difference is that the people will have to pay quite a lot for it. And when they live in the HDB, they don’t interact so much.
MP: Who’s fault is that? Who’s fault is that? Do you interact with your neighbours? If you live in a HDB estate?
JY: No.
MP: Exactly. And the question to ask ourselves is why? Kassim, your parents used to live in a kampong? How close the people in the Kampung, they treat each other like brothers and sisters?
HZ: Yeah.
WN: Just now Mr Phua mentioned about aging in place. Do you know what is aging in place?
CL: Not really.
WN: It’s for you to age in an environment where you know the place very well. When I grow old, I don’t want to be in a place where I am not familiar with. I want to know where is the coffee shop, the clinic, the market. It will be very easy for me. I don’t want to age in a place that I am not familiar with. So the concept of aging in place is like that. So now if you were to look at our HDB flat, you go down to the void deck, there is your kopi tiam, shopping mall? Government is now introducing the concept to the residents., to GP. You go to a clinic, they charge you $30, you go to a polyclinic $16. So now they government is introducing this scheme to the GP, so when you go to the GP, they will charge you as what the polyclinic is charging you. I am not against a retirement village, but I do not see the benefit as far as Singapore context is concerned. Land is very scarce. If I were to build and pay for a retirement village, might as well I use that land to build a high rise entertainment centre. I’ll get more returns that way. Right?
So let the people stay in the flat, the place where they are very familiar with. So for now, if for example, if your parents stay in one block, and you move in to the next block very close to your parents, you get to pay for your flat at a special price. You have close rapport within the family, you get family bonding, build community. You know who your upstairs neighbour is? Next door neighbour? How many children does he have?
Singapore used to have the concept of kampong. You can open the door from morning to evening, but in a HDB flat, you can lock your door the whole day.
So that’s the concept. You want to stay in an environment that you’re familiar with.
CL: Do you think there are enough resources for healthcare?
MP: So far yes. But “enough” is a very big word. It’s never enough. But I think bevore I answer this question. Let me ask how many of you read the Straits Times every day. Read the headlines only.
CL: Only weekends.
JY: Sometimes articles that are very good my dad will pass to me.
HZ: Sometimes if it’s the morning paper before breakfast, I just flip through to see if there is anything interesting.
JJ: Sometimes I just look at the headlines. Sometimes my father will pass me some interesting articles.
MP: What is your dad doing?
JJ: He’s a manager.
MP: recently at the budget debate, MOH came up with a healthcare masterplan especially for the elderly. My assignment to 5 of you, go back to March when the debates started. You look through the straits times, extract only the articles given by Min Gan Kim Yong, Minister for MOH. He gave a pretty good account of the healthcare masterplan. Probably he came in the debates on 11 or 12 of March onwards. Two days. Go to the school library, they must have past papers. Flip through and Photostat. I don’t think the school will allow you to cut the papers so go and Photostat the relevant article. That will give you an idea how adequate, how current, what is going to be done for the future for the elderly. Then you form your own conclusion. OK? All right? So I’m not going to give you any answers because I think this is a good time for you to do some research. It is your project. You have to come up with the answers, doesn’t matter if they are right or wrong. Come up with solutions and suggestions, and that will be the value of your project. Clarence, you got that? And then I have one request, both Mr Wan Noor and myself have one request. We would like you to send us a copy of your project. Is that all right? DO you have to get permission from your teachers?
CL: Our final report.
JY: It would be our pleasure.
MP: And then we may be able to learn some new ideas from you. Because what you suggest may be applicable in the future. Your generation later on.
JY: Next question, 6. What can be done to improve healthcare costs?
MP: I don’t know. Up to you to think after you’ve got all your facts. Then you come up with recommendations and solutions. We’re not going to give you the answers. Please don’t give answers like “government has to pay”. That is not the answer. Think about it. Five of you brainstrorm. What should be done to reduce healthcare costs? When you use the word “improve”, it can go up you know. Can you change the question and use the word “reduce”.
ZY: Excuse me, can I go to the toilet?
MP: Of course you can? Turn left, go straight out.
WN: Yes, Clarence, what is the purpose of your research? What do you intend to find out? How can we help you? Introduce your project first. What is the purpose of your project?
CL: In our research work, we aim to address the retirement needs of the elderly. Financial planning, healthcare and social activities are the key concerns of this research interview. In addition, we are exploring the possibility of building a retirement resort / village with the feasibility of using CPF. Elderly without dependent support are most vulnerable to retirement pitfalls. By researching such issues, the prospects of active and successful ageing are possible.
MP: And that’s you’re key concerns?
C: Yah, mainly that
MP: Now, who suggested this? Was it you’re teacher, or amongst yourselves
ZY: Umm, it’s part of our research education project that we are required to do
MP: no, no I understand but how did this subject come about
ZY: Our teacher gave it to us
MP: So the topic was given by your teacher, is it?
CL: We were supposed to research on the needs of the elderly and then, we thought that, umm we discussed and we thought that this is quite a good idea to
WN: So, so who came up with the idea, for the research project? Who came up with the idea? Your idea, or your friend’s idea or your teacher’s idea?
CL: Our teacher asked us to… our topic was to find ways to suit the retirement needs of the elderly
ZY: All the groups are required to do something
WN: all do one thing, divided into different groups lah
MP: no I don’t think so. So umm how many groups are there
JY: No, what the teacher gave us was to have us find and research a common need for the elderly and we each have to find a need for the elderly and meet their need. So, what we thought of was building a retirement village for the elderly to meet their needs. So we decided what we needed to do to cater to the needs but the, the main idea is to research the common need or needs for the elderly
WN: Different group got different topic, lah?
CL: their all on the elderly but…
ZY: slightly different
WN:ohh
MP: so different topics for each group, is that correct
HZ: Yah
MP: mmm, that’s good
CL: it’s like, we could decide on what we want to do but is all linked back to the elderly
MP: basically, ok, the aging population is a very big subject and there are lots and lots of challenges and things that need to be done. I think mr wan noor and myself we’ve discussed and we say, right, we’re going to ask you, before coming here did you do any research on population aging in Singapore
JJ: Yes
CL: umm, we found out that the percentage of,
ZY: the population of the elderly is, the percentage is rising. So its becoming a bigger problem and we need to cater to their needs because they are getting more now
MP: the numbers are increasing, lah, correct
CL: yah, its like, its, they think that it will reach 19% by, in Singapore, by 2030
MP: Alright, now, we start with the basic first, ok? What is your definition of the elderly?
JJ: People who are 62 years old and above
MP: 62…. Well, ok, I think I know where you get the figure 62 from, it’s the official retirement age, correct. Now, that is not what is generally who fits into the elderly category. Now, Clarence says that by 2030 the percentage will reach 19%. OK? Of the population in Singapore, correct, will be elderly, lah, correct? Based on what Clarence said, in fact the age, in which a person is considered an elderly is 65 years. Please, bear that in mind. 65 years and above, ok? Now, those people below, they are not considered elderly. I have asked you for a definition of elderly. In Singapore, there is no definition. It’s a loose thing. Generally for statistical purposes, they use 65 years and above. See, there are many terms to use, elderly, senior citizens, old folks, older people, you know that, right? And UN uses the term older people. We in Singapore, officially we call elderly, senior citizens, correct? Generally, everybody is stuck with the term elderly, lah, right? Umm, doesn’t matter. So I think you must get this right. In your report, you’ve got to make it very clear so that whoever, youre teacher or anybody who reads know you are talking about people who are 65 years and above, ok? You want to call them elderly, senior citizens, the government calls them snior citizens, you notice that, correct? Nd if you want to call them senior citizens, stick to the same terminology throughout. You do want to put one sentence senior citizens another sentence you put elderly and then the third sentence older people, then you confuse the reader, right? So my, our suggestion is, stick to senior citizens but we give it to you, its your project. Now, umm these are the basics, which you’ve just gone through, this is the intro. You’ve asked ten questions, you’ve got ten questions. Alright, Mr Wan Noor, over to you.
WN: Please carry on with your questions
CL: Do you think Singapore has adequate financial planning for retirement
MP: Well, this question, Clarence, I don’t know how to answer, I tell you why? It is because what exactly do you mean by adequate financial planning, do you want to clarify that.
CL: Umm like….
MP: No, are you saying financial planning from whose point of view. The individuals point of view, the country’s point of view, which point of view. “Does Singapore have adequate financial planning”, are you talking about whether it is retirement schemes or pension schemes, like what some western countries have, is that what you have in mind?
CL: umm yah, I mean like retirement schemes…
MP: You mean pension schemes, lah, in other words, when I retire, I get a sum of money, every month, from the government. Now is that what you have in mind when you ask that question?
CL: Like maybe the different funds like maybe CPF and other…
MP: okay… in other words, this question what you have in mind is, does Singapore have social security scheme. A pension is a type of social security, a country’s social security scheme, do you understand, alright, so when you have financial planning, change that question from the adequate financial planning, change to adequate social security, you’ve got to make a change there, in other words, after he has retired, does a person have a say for example a pension scheme, the collective term for this is a social security scheme, OK?
Part 2.5
MP:Different schemes coming together and, and and its got to be done in such a way that it covers various aspects because when you say just healthcare alone, to me, it conjures up a person who is sick, whether he requires operation or not, if he is sick then what sort of illnesses or diseases does this person have, what does it take to provide the medical treatment to cure. Does this person require surgery? After surgery what type of rehabilitation does he require? It is a very complicated process. Alright now, another contributory factor to high healthcare costs is the expensive equiptment the hospitals have got. Modern but expensive. Now, if the hospitals were to recover the cost, what about the staff, where do they get their salary from?
HZ: The patients
MP: Right, so the government recently put in place a budget, right, 2012 budget, yes? Then Ministry of Health has got a budget, quite a few billion dollars, and that is used to provide the infrastructure the operating costs and the doctor’s salaries, the nurses’ salaries, the whole works. Bearing in mind Singapore is not a welfare state, so therefore there is a certain amount of co-payment by the individuals, ok? Now these are the basics, the fundamentals that you must address, understand? Then we can begin to talk about healthcare cost like you’ve mentioned, you’ve got your medisave, medifund, you know, right? Then begin to talk then we can find if your answer is yes or no. The current healthcare costs are, okay, an average class person, middle-class downwards, cannot afford this and of course the lower income. Have you been to a doctor, when you were sick lah. How much did your parents have to pay for the consultation, to your GP, general practioner?
CL: Consultation only?
MP: You went to the clinic.
CL: Not counting medicine?
MP: Including, yes, everything
CL: I think umm $50
MP: How much, one-five, ah? 50? That’s-that’s high, right, so it was… was it for flu or what?
CL: Uhh, cant remember
MP: That was how long ago?
CL: Quite long ago
MP: Good thing the 5 of you are healthy and don’t have to go to the doctor often
JY: but the elderly need to go more often.
MP: Correct. Now but $50 is expensive, right, Clarence? Which doctor did you go to, the specialist or what?
WN: The most around $30 or so
ZY: Last time I go to the clinic then they give me a lot of medicine then the cost was very high
MP: Was it a private clinic, a private clinic or what?
ZY: Ah, it’s the family clinic
MP: The family clinic. So how much did your parents pay for the consultation at the GP? You went to the clinic right?
ZY: $50
MP: Where do you live?
ZY: They gave me a lot of medicine:
MP: But where do you live?
ZY: Potong Pasir, BoonKeng
MP: Yeah, I know where Boon Keng is. But $50 is expensive. I am surprised to hear. I go, when I had flu, slightly more than a month a go. I went to a clinic here. $16 including medicine. Average is $20, $30 maximum. $50, sure or not?
CL: $20 more consultation, then add medicine.
MP: Have you gone to doctor or not?
JY: My father’s a doctor.
MP: But does he treat you or he sends you to his friend?
JY: He treats me. He’s a GP as well. Unless I need a specialist.
MP: But then he can afford to pay.
CL: So what you’re saying is that the elderly have more problems with their health and thus have to pay more. Just like we ourselves would have to pay about $50 perhaps even the elderly might have to pay more.
MP: No. No. No.
CL: But perhaps we could supply some sort of medical health care help like your $16 consultations
MP: I must ask the GP who treated me. He is 70 years old, still in good health. He is a very very cheap generous GP. And there are quite a lot of GPs who actually charge lower rates for older people. They do. Do you know the late president of SAGE. Who passed away, he was a GP he had a clinic at Serangoon estate and without exception, he would give free consultation to those who could not afford to pay. Elderly. Those who could afford to pay he would give a lower rate for the elderly. Yes. And that is what I know some of our doctors do here. And I sincerely hope we have more of such doctors in Singapore. Hopefully all our GPs practise that.
JY: Perhaps the retirement villages could give free treatment. But then money would be a problem but I’m sure..
MP: Retirement Village…can we come to retirement village? OK?
JY: Yeah.
MP: Why do we need the retirement village? Who’s going to build the retirement village? The government?
ZY: Actually there are plans to build one in Johor Bahru.
JY: Actually for this kind of buildings the government would usually pay.
MP: But why would we build a retirement village? For what?
JY: For the benefit of the elderly?
MP: I am very happy staying at home. Why should I go to the retirement village?
CL: More and more people are going to the old folks’ home.
MP: is it? Because they’re sick? Because they have been discarded by their children. Now if their children take care of them and they are healthy, even with aches and pains, why should they go to retirement..why should they go to old folks’ home?
CL: So these would be those without the support…
MP: Right, right.Where are they staying now? The people in your research? Where are they staying now? Old folks’ home? Or in one or two room flat? Your research must tell you this.
CL: They showed that like.. uh…the people living with their children. So they are probably living in old folks’ home because the people going old folks’ home are increasing.
JY: Perhaps not enough money.
MP: Is it? It’s not cheap you know, staying in an old folks’ home, I assure you.
WN: To stay in an old folks’ home, it’s about $1800 around there. It’s not cheap, you know.
MP: And those who can’t afford, and no family, then the government subsidises. And that’s old folk;s home. It’s not cheap.
JY: It could be much less. Since it’s a retirement village. It’s not to make money. There could be a criteria. A certain criteria where you’re eligible to move inside .
MP: Can you please tell me who is going to pay to build a retirement village.
JY: Well it is as you say, a welfare society.
MP: No it is not a welfare state. So the state is not building that. You help SAGE to raise funds. How are you going to raise funds? Do you know, you raise for the building let’s say $10 m to build the building. What about running expenses?
CL: Well, seeing if it is feasible. Well people who want to stay at retirement villages could pay a certain amount every month. Like maybe after they die, or something then their children get maybe $100K from the insurance company. Where do the insurance company get the money? Because they invest.
MP: You invest the money? OK. That’s an idea lah hah. I want to go back to the basic. The concept of retirement village comes from the west. Because of their different culture, lifestyle of western people, right, they always encourage children to strike out on their own. Unlike the Asians where family relationship is very important, and still strong. And the parents as they grow older are quite used to staying on their own. Their children go to university, the country is big. Can you imagine whether it is Australia or US or Europe. When their children go to university they may be staying quite far from their parents. This is their life. This is their culture. So when they retire, that’s when businessmen come up with this idea of a retirement village, where they build houses or complexes. And they sell to these retirees. OK, they retire from their jobs and they buy these houses from the companies, or sometimes they lease. All retirement villages whether they are in US, Australia or anywhere else, they are built by private sector companies.
JY: We could have our own concept of retirement village.
MP: Well, we could. Good point, I can tell you, our HDB estates all the HDB estates whether it’s Toa Payoh, Ang Mo Kio, Bishan, Bt Batok anywhere when you look at it, each estate is a retirement village in itself. Think about it. They have more than 80% of Singaporeans live in HDB flats. Either 1 rm, 3 rm, 5 rm, and if you take a census of Toa Payoh. Queenstown? Redhill?
JY: Toa Payoh is mainly elderly.
MP: Perhaps not Sengkang because it is a new estate. You please think about it. Each and everyone of our HDB estate as a retirement village, then we are able to say we want to implement the concept of aging in place. And not all the elderly stay together in the retirement village. What’s the difference between HDB estate where you have markets , clinics, right? Hawker centres, yes? And you build a retirement village, where you have to put all these amenities, what’s the difference. Please Tell me?
JY: I think Clarence can explain our concept.
CL: I think the only difference is that the people will have to pay quite a lot for it. And when they live in the HDB, they don’t interact so much.
MP: Who’s fault is that? Who’s fault is that? Do you interact with your neighbours? If you live in a HDB estate?
JY: No.
MP: Exactly. And the question to ask ourselves is why? Kassim, your parents used to live in a kampong? How close the people in the Kampung, they treat each other like brothers and sisters?
HZ: Yeah.
WN: Just now Mr Phua mentioned about aging in place. Do you know what is aging in place?
CL: Not really.
WN: It’s for you to age in an environment where you know the place very well. When I grow old, I don’t want to be in a place where I am not familiar with. I want to know where is the coffee shop, the clinic, the market. It will be very easy for me. I don’t want to age in a place that I am not familiar with. So the concept of aging in place is like that. So now if you were to look at our HDB flat, you go down to the void deck, there is your kopi tiam, shopping mall? Government is now introducing the concept to the residents., to GP. You go to a clinic, they charge you $30, you go to a polyclinic $16. So now they government is introducing this scheme to the GP, so when you go to the GP, they will charge you as what the polyclinic is charging you. I am not against a retirement village, but I do not see the benefit as far as Singapore context is concerned. Land is very scarce. If I were to build and pay for a retirement village, might as well I use that land to build a high rise entertainment centre. I’ll get more returns that way. Right?
So let the people stay in the flat, the place where they are very familiar with. So for now, if for example, if your parents stay in one block, and you move in to the next block very close to your parents, you get to pay for your flat at a special price. You have close rapport within the family, you get family bonding, build community. You know who your upstairs neighbour is? Next door neighbour? How many children does he have?
Singapore used to have the concept of kampong. You can open the door from morning to evening, but in a HDB flat, you can lock your door the whole day.
So that’s the concept. You want to stay in an environment that you’re familiar with.
CL: Do you think there are enough resources for healthcare?
MP: So far yes. But “enough” is a very big word. It’s never enough. But I think bevore I answer this question. Let me ask how many of you read the Straits Times every day. Read the headlines only.
CL: Only weekends.
JY: Sometimes articles that are very good my dad will pass to me.
HZ: Sometimes if it’s the morning paper before breakfast, I just flip through to see if there is anything interesting.
JJ: Sometimes I just look at the headlines. Sometimes my father will pass me some interesting articles.
MP: What is your dad doing?
JJ: He’s a manager.
MP: recently at the budget debate, MOH came up with a healthcare masterplan especially for the elderly. My assignment to 5 of you, go back to March when the debates started. You look through the straits times, extract only the articles given by Min Gan Kim Yong, Minister for MOH. He gave a pretty good account of the healthcare masterplan. Probably he came in the debates on 11 or 12 of March onwards. Two days. Go to the school library, they must have past papers. Flip through and Photostat. I don’t think the school will allow you to cut the papers so go and Photostat the relevant article. That will give you an idea how adequate, how current, what is going to be done for the future for the elderly. Then you form your own conclusion. OK? All right? So I’m not going to give you any answers because I think this is a good time for you to do some research. It is your project. You have to come up with the answers, doesn’t matter if they are right or wrong. Come up with solutions and suggestions, and that will be the value of your project. Clarence, you got that? And then I have one request, both Mr Wan Noor and myself have one request. We would like you to send us a copy of your project. Is that all right? DO you have to get permission from your teachers?
CL: Our final report.
JY: It would be our pleasure.
MP: And then we may be able to learn some new ideas from you. Because what you suggest may be applicable in the future. Your generation later on.
JY: Next question, 6. What can be done to improve healthcare costs?
MP: I don’t know. Up to you to think after you’ve got all your facts. Then you come up with recommendations and solutions. We’re not going to give you the answers. Please don’t give answers like “government has to pay”. That is not the answer. Think about it. Five of you brainstrorm. What should be done to reduce healthcare costs? When you use the word “improve”, it can go up you know. Can you change the question and use the word “reduce”.
ZY: Excuse me, can I go to the toilet?
MP: Of course you can? Turn left, go straight out.